The Spizzy

INTERVIEW BY KHALID STRICKLAND a.k.a. BLACK PACINO

After selling 20 million records worldwide and being honored in the pages of Vogue, Vanity Fair and other international magazines, R&B singer Jody Watley could rest on her laurels.  As an original member of the group Shalamar, Jody Watley is celebrated for classic records such as “A Night To Remember” and “The Second Time Around.” In 1984 she embarked on a solo career that spawned numerous Top-10 Hits, including “Looking For a New Love” and “Friends” with rap icon Rakim.  “Friends” was the first collaboration between an R&B artist and a rapper, sparking a phenomenon that is now a staple of urban music.  In 1987 she won the Grammy for “Best New Artist” and in 2008 she received a Lifetime Achievement Award from Billboard Magazine.

Watley has brought her business savvy and fresh music to the internet, a new frontier that’s been both a gift and a curse to the recording industry.  Online distribution has given artists new-found independence and control.  Meanwhile major record label executives are clinging to straws.  At The Jody Watley Music Store, fans can purchase digital downloads of her latest indie albums, special remixes and her coveted Japanese-only release, “The Saturday Night Experience Volume One.”  Watley will also preview her upcoming album, Chameleon, at the site. The album’s smooth first single, “Candlelight,” has made beautiful noise online and on-air.  Recently, Watley was also featured in the historic “Black Issue” of Vogue Italia magazine.  Unlike many veteran artists who can’t adapt, Jody Watley has remained relevant.

Using quotes from my interview with her, I wrote stories about Watley in The New York Amsterdam News and Caribbean Life, two prestigious NYC newspapers.  But right here and now, exclusively at The Spizzy, I am revealing our full conversation for the very first time.  Below the jump, Ms. Watley discusses the digital music revolution, what keeps her hungry and her groundbreaking collaboration with one of the greatest rappers of all-time, Rakim.

Black Pacino: What motivated you to establish your digital music store?

Jody Watley: I wanted to be able to create something exclusive for my fans because my music is available at other outlets like iTunes and Amazon.com but I thought it would be really cool to open my own digital store and be able to release music that they can’t get anywhere else.  Since I have my own label I have the luxury of being able to release whatever I want whether it’s exclusive remixes, live recordings and it’s my choice.  The fans are really excited about it.  It’s another wave of the future and you’ll see other artists, as time goes on, do more things like this.

Pacino: With all the technology at an artist’s disposal, are record labels as we know them now even necessary?

Watley: I don’t think as much.  I think that they probably work for teen artists that want to embrace the commercial juggernaut… for certain artists that are comfortable in the machine and don’t want the responsibility of being independent.  But for the rest of us renegades out here I think it’s a fantastic time.  And I say no because there’s no infrastructure to keep you away from your fans and you’re able to marker directly to them and again create your own niche… your own community.  I think that the major label system as people have known it is steadily eroding and there are a lot of us who aren’t sad about it (laughs).  Because they’re kind of folding under their narrow-minded lack of vision that started to pervade starting in the early-90’s, when labels started merging and it wasn’t about artist development, A&R or creating anything of substance.  It was just about how much money can we make on this artist the first week out and that wasn’t a system that could thrive for too long.  Again, I just think it’s ultimately better for artists because you can have ownership over what you do and put it out how you want it to be put out.

Pacino: There were some record label executives that said Radiohead acted irresponsibly by letting their fans decide on how much they wanted to pay for their digital album.  What’s your response to execs who said that?

Watley: They need to come out of the Dark Ages (laughs).  It’s a new day and I loved what Radiohead did.  In fact, I went to the website and I paid for it.  I paid what I wanted to pay, which was normally what you’d normally pay for a full length (album) and I thought it was exciting.  Actually they proved them wrong because one it did become available at iTunes it was still very successful and it created a continued groundswell of enthusiasm and support within their fan community and it wasn’t irresponsible at all.  I think what’s irresponsible as an artist is if you’re not pro-active and you’re not trying new things, because this is like the wild, wild West so to speak.  Anything is possible.  We’re able to create new rules in distribution of music and the major labels, of course, are going to discourage it.  Anything that is about major change and ultimately positive change, you get more resistance from the people who’ve been controlling it the longest.  They don’t want to see the change because it means that their profit margin gets reduced even further.  Artists, instead of making pennies on the dollar, they’ll be making more dollars by doing it their own way.  I think it’s a great thing.

Pacino: You’ve accomplished so many great things throughout your career and you still make music like an upcoming artist.  You’re really hungry.

Watley: I am.  Always (laughs).

Pacino: What keeps you hungry and passionate when you’ve accomplished as much as you have? How do you stay motivated?

Watley: I don’t know… I’m just really passionate about what I do.  I love music.  As a kid I loved some really good music.  When I do anything it goes to my core of my respect and appreciation of music and how it made me feel and how it inspired me and I don’t want to let the legacy of good music down.  That keeps me fired up.  And I also challenge myself to just get better.  I don’t think that you can ever be complacent about what you do and that does it.  It’s really hard to explain.  The more obstacles I face, the more fired-up I get.  It’s like an athlete or something, you want perfection. Perfection isn’t possible but you keep going for it.  When you’re in the moment of what you’re doing, you’re less likely to become jaded and that’s the kind of person I am.  I like to keep it moving, I’m not a person who likes to look back too much.  I’m about “What can I do next? What haven’t I done?” Things like that instead of “Oh well, I made it to the top. I can kick some dust around and just let some weeds grow.”  I’m not that person.  I love the hustle of it.  It can be trying sometimes but “it’s the journey not the destination” is one of my favorite quotations.

Pacino: You were the first R&B artist to collaborate with a rapper. You recruited Rakim for the song “Friends” and that was a hit.  Now R&B/Rap collaborations are commonplace… almost a requirement now.  Some are good, some are bad and some are forced.  So when you look at this trend you created, do you feel like a proud or disappointed parent?

Watley: Wow, good question.  Ummm… I guess I feel like a proud parent, for better or for worse.  It was the first collaboration of its kind where… Rakim, he came in and he did a verse specifically for me.  It wasn’t just a shout-out, it was specific.  I don’t often get credit for it but we did something that nobody thought would work.  Like, “She’s R&B/Pop” and Rakim, who I love… one of the best emcees ever… it’s not going to work.  And it did work.  And now sometimes people do those collaborations and it’s like, “Well, they really didn’t need to throw a rapper on this song.”  Sometimes it’s really hot.  So ultimately I’m just glad I was a part of something that hadn’t been done before and then it continued and it’s taken on a life of its own.

Pacino: Was there anything in particular that made you want to work with Rakim?

Watley: Paid In Full (laughs).  I love the sound of his voice. His delivery was so menacing and I like the contrasts because I just thought, “It doesn’t make sense, but it’ll make sense.” At the time when I made the suggestion, MCA, who was my label at the time, thought I should do it with The Fresh Prince… Will Smith, because he was more mainstream and pop.  But that would be really obvious and Rakim is underground and not that Will Smith wasn’t credible but Rakim… it was just a different thing.  I never wanted to work with anybody I wasn’t a fan of.  It’s never, “Okay, this person is hot so I want (them).” I just always have the mindset of having to love somebody what they do and not just do it.  And he just has a great voice and we got together again on the 90’s for a remix of a song I did called “Off The Hook,” which was on my Flower record.  And I hadn’t seen Rakim in a while and he (did) the work he went on to do with Dr. Dre.  He’s like me… you don’t get older; you get better (laughs).

Pacino: (Laughs) That’s right.  I don’t know if you keep up with Hip-Hop nowadays but if you were to do a song like that again, is there any rapper now you’d collaborate with?

Watley: Ummm… I like Common.  I think somebody that was a little off the beaten path, you know? The obvious thing would be, “Oh, Lil’ Wayne is hot. I want him on my track.” But I would want to do it with somebody like Nas or somebody you wouldn’t even think it would work…  Somebody that is unknown.  I like Lupe Fiasco and there’s another kid… I’m spacin’ on his name but he’s kind of like Lupe Fiasco… uh… Oh, God… but anyway (laughs), somebody that’s off the beaten path.

Pacino: What other endeavors do you have poppin’ off? I heard you have a fashion magazine in Japan.

Watley: I was the first Black woman to be on the cover of a major fashion magazine in Japan.  But I write blogs, I have a blog on my MySpace page that I cover everything… whether it’s politics or life lessons… just general topics.  I’m just trying to always keep it moving at not be stagnant.  Another favorite quote of mine is “It’s better to take tiny steps forward rather than one giant leap backwards” (laughs).  Whatever I do, it’s just about keeping it moving forward in a positive way.  I like Mos Def too… I’m still thinking about the Hip-Hop question.  But for me that’s what it’s about, whether it’s the online store… I’d like to write books, more music. This ownership thing and entrepreneurship is something that I just want to spread the word (about) to all the people who will read your article.  Whatever you do just have some integrity with it and own it.  Owning it could be just that you stand by what you did… what you write, what you put out and being plugged into the business.  Because I think we all have an incredible opportunity as the world is changing globally to the entertainment; the music business.  Opportunity is at hand if you are tenacious and willing to roll up your sleeves and do the work.  I’m all about it.

Pacino: You mentioned on your MySpace page that a lot of Black artists don’t get their props historically.  Do you feel like you’re such an artist?

Watley: Sometimes, absolutely.  Because I’ve had people say it to me… a lot of my fans say it to me.  I don’t do anything because I want the recognition per se.  I do my work because like I said, I grew up as a fan of music and I know how inspirational it was for me.  It was something that helped me to dream big dreams; not only to dream them but really want to work toward achieving them.  And I understand how the music business is historically.  I understand how it is for Black artists… for Black women. So in that way it’s in perspective.  But definitely I know that I’ve done things that had I been a different shade it would be, “Okay, she was the first one to do this…” In the mainstream media (because) those who know, know.  The international side, a lot of things like the (collaboration) with Rakim.  I did a fitness video which was number one and at a time (when) the only other women were Jane Fonda and people like that.  It’s a quiet thing that hadn’t been done before.  They were no fitness videos with Black people in them.  There were no people at the time talking about HIV & AIDS and I was discouraged from addressing those issues.  But that’s something that we all need to be paying attention to and now it’s kind of fashionable to talk about it but when I was doing it was kind of like, “No, no, that’s a bad thing.”  So my perspective on it is always it is what it is.  I’m just proud of me because we have to celebrate ourselves first and foremost and not get caught up in if other people (do).  If they do, they do and that’s a nice validation.  I wrote about being in the Black issue of Italian Vogue.  And the thing I wrote in the blog about it was… the ironic thing is when I was on MCA, I would always have these debates about I wasn’t “Black enough” and things of that nature, which would be so incredibly insulting and hurtful to me as a Black woman.  Like, I’m totally representing and we come in all shapes, sizes, backgrounds and the whole bit.  But it was a mentality, a stereotype, to try and get me to be something that I wasn’t.  We come in all hues and types and everything.  And to be well-spoken and represent something that is me.  I am who I am and no one can make me be other something to that; to make me an embarrassment to myself, to my family or to my community. So when people talk about keeping it real, they don’t often in the best way.  And because I’ve always tries to do that, it meant a lot to be in the Black issue.  It was like being recognized but it was kind of bizarre that it was in an Italian magazine (laughs).  But it was cool at the same time.  After being at this as long as I have and not be beaten down… because sometimes I feel like it’s almost set-up for us to be beaten down so that you just give up and go away.  I’m not going away until I decide to go away (laughs).

Pacino: (Laughs) Well hopefully you don’t go away for a long time.

Watley: (Laughs) I hope not.

Links of interest:

JODY WATLEY MUSIC STORE

JODY WATLEY’S MYSPACE PAGE